Open Letter to Jeff Simmermon
Dear Jeff Simmermon,
So as you've seen, there's a little blog-thing going around today on BoingBoing and Metafilter about some sort of incident at the shop this past weekend.
(Original blog post here. Also blogged here and here.)
I suppose some sort of two-cents is warranted here.
Okay, we don't do espresso over ice. Why? Number one, because we don't do it. Number two, because we don't do it. Mostly for quality reasons. Also, because more than half the time, it's abused (Google "ghetto latte").
We have some policies at murky coffee. No sleeping in the shop. If you're asleep, you'll be tapped on the shoulder and asked not to sleep in the shop. We've had to ban a customer because of his chronic napping.
No modifications to the Classic Cappuccino. No questions will be answered about the $5 Hot Chocolate (during the months we offer it). No espresso in a to-go cup. No espresso over ice. These are our policies. We have our reasons, and we're happy to share them.
To others reading this I will say that if you don't like the policies, I respectfully recommend that you find some other place that will give you what you want, or select something that we can offer you. David, the barista in question, is respectful, passionate, and cares about making good coffee, and he cares about murky's policies. Nobody's perfect, and maybe David could have chosen different words or a slightly different tack in responding to Jeff Simmermon's request. But that's life. At murky, we try to treat people with common courtesy, and expect the same from our customers. Not in response or in turn, but because that's how people are supposed to treat each other. We're not supposed to go through life looking for reasons to get pissed off. Life's too short for that sort of thing.
To Mr. Simmermon, you overplayed your hand with your vulgar tip-schtick. While I certainly won't bemoan you your right to free-speech, I have to respond to you in your own dialect: F*@k you, Jeff Simmermon. Considering your public threat of arson, you'll understand when I say that if you ever show your face at my shop, I'll punch you in your dick.
Respectfully,
Nick
Owner, murky coffee
[UPDATE July 16, 2008: A follow-up here]
So as you've seen, there's a little blog-thing going around today on BoingBoing and Metafilter about some sort of incident at the shop this past weekend.
(Original blog post here. Also blogged here and here.)
I suppose some sort of two-cents is warranted here.
Okay, we don't do espresso over ice. Why? Number one, because we don't do it. Number two, because we don't do it. Mostly for quality reasons. Also, because more than half the time, it's abused (Google "ghetto latte").
We have some policies at murky coffee. No sleeping in the shop. If you're asleep, you'll be tapped on the shoulder and asked not to sleep in the shop. We've had to ban a customer because of his chronic napping.
No modifications to the Classic Cappuccino. No questions will be answered about the $5 Hot Chocolate (during the months we offer it). No espresso in a to-go cup. No espresso over ice. These are our policies. We have our reasons, and we're happy to share them.
To others reading this I will say that if you don't like the policies, I respectfully recommend that you find some other place that will give you what you want, or select something that we can offer you. David, the barista in question, is respectful, passionate, and cares about making good coffee, and he cares about murky's policies. Nobody's perfect, and maybe David could have chosen different words or a slightly different tack in responding to Jeff Simmermon's request. But that's life. At murky, we try to treat people with common courtesy, and expect the same from our customers. Not in response or in turn, but because that's how people are supposed to treat each other. We're not supposed to go through life looking for reasons to get pissed off. Life's too short for that sort of thing.
To Mr. Simmermon, you overplayed your hand with your vulgar tip-schtick. While I certainly won't bemoan you your right to free-speech, I have to respond to you in your own dialect: F*@k you, Jeff Simmermon. Considering your public threat of arson, you'll understand when I say that if you ever show your face at my shop, I'll punch you in your dick.
Respectfully,
Nick
Owner, murky coffee
[UPDATE July 16, 2008: A follow-up here]
posted at 7:47:00 PM -215 comments-
215 Comments:
While I didn't agree with what had happened (on either the part of the customer, Jeff, or the barista, David), I think this open letter is really quite immature and childish.
I'll remember your coffee shop now not as the one that I would go to visit to get some no-bullshit-coffee in DC, but as the one owned by the guy who threatened to punch a customer in the dick.
Way to boost business, guys.
Nick, he didn't ask David to serve him the drink over ice. He asked for the espresso and a cup of ice. He was going to pour it over ice himself and David need not besmirch his barista-ness.
Are you saying if a customer wanders into your shop, gets an espresso, whips out a package of salt at the table and pours some in the espresso that David is going to tell him that it's not cool? It's his espresso! I'm sure it's a fab espresso and that's terrific that David's standards of baristiality won't allow him to ice it, but a customer can surely ice it themselves once they've paid for it?
Wow, you sound like a complete jackass. If I want to buy your espresso drink and take it outside and pour it on the sidewalk, I can do it. If I want to buy your espresso drink and mix it with raspberry Kool-Aid and drink it, I can do it. If I want to pour it over ice, I can do it. Why should you care what I do with it once I've bought it from you? If that's the away I like it - over ice - then it doesn't dilute the quality for me. It actually enhances it. It's pedantic, pretentious, self-important people like you and your ridiculous barista who make our society such a joke, and I hope your business suffers as a result of your behavior. By the way, why does the owner of a fucking coffee shop need a blog anyway? Who cares what you have to say?
fuck you and your shitty coffee
I think Murky Coffee is great, and I'm super bummed that the Cap Hill location had to close... but man, you need to *seriously* re-think your last paragraph. Seriously, absolutely nothing good can come of that for you.
Way to take it like a chump, man.
"No modifications to the Classic Cappuccino. No questions will be answered about the $5 Hot Chocolate (during the months we offer it). No espresso in a to-go cup. No espresso over ice. These are our policies. We have our reasons, and we're happy to share them."
What exactly was the reason for not putting a shot of espresso over ice? You are being quite murky, ghetto coffee sir.
Right on. My first reaction is "lighten up," but the ending had me come around to your side. Thanks for a hilarious and totally un-PC response.
Fuck you and your coffee ideology.
You have ice? You have espresso? Add one to two.
He's not asking you to make a frappucino or something.
How is there possibly a difference between espresso over ice and espresso with water?
And yes, ghetto lattes suck. There are other solutions to that, like not charging arbitrary amounts.
Nick, are you kidding me?!? I mean, nevermind trying to reconcile the whole "treating people with common courtesy" thing with your not paying the DC taxes that fund your customers' school systems and social services; how abour reconciling it with the "punch you in your dick" comment?
Jesus, I've actually found myself missing Murky on the Hill here and there, but you just managed to put an end to that with one post on the 'net. Well played.
I found Simmermon's blog via boingboing, and read his story with a chuckle. But after reading your response....
I don't live in the DC area, but my brother does. I drive up to see him a few times a year. On my way, I come right through the Arlington area on 395. Next time I go see him, I'm going to make a special trip by your establishment and enjoy a hot cup of coffee. Even if it is August.
"I respectfully recommend that you find some other place that will give you what you want"
I'm not Jeff but you're immature response will definitely mean I'll find a new coffee place. Too bad - I really loved your hot chocolate. Grow up Nick.
I've never been to your store, so I am curious about a couple of things: How soon is a customer aware of your policies? Is it on the outside of the storefront? Written clearly inside for anyone coming in to see? Or does someone only find out that your establishment after coming inside and then waiting in line to order? I suggest a sign, outside, that says owned and operated by pretentious assholes at least that would be fair warning.
"We have our reasons, and we're happy to share them."
So ... are you actually going to share them, or what? I mean, the total lack of reasons are kind of what escalated the situation to begin with. Please, do share. The internet is waiting for you to share.
Hey Nick, I have read Jeff's blog and your response. I do not agree with Jeff's response especially with the tip. However as part of good customer service I would expect you/your staff to have complied with a customer request. I do not like your attitude esp. in the last line "....when I say that if you ever show your face at my shop, I'll punch you in your dick....". I certinly wont be visiting your shop if thats how you feel about paying customers.
There is nothing good about who you are or what you do. No chance in hell I'd ever go to one of your wretched stores.
I wonder how many days its going to take before you run this business into the ground like you did your DC one. I hope you're paying your Virginia taxes...douchebags.
Sure... I can see how you managed to mistake a saying like "the customer is always right" for "the customer deserves to be ridiculed and then punched in the dick." It's a pretty common mistake, actually.
I'd mention something here to the rest of the world about they should take you up on your "please don't come into my shop, you philistine" attitude, but I expect you'll just moderate this away anyhow.
I would like to know what quality difference there is between an Americano and espresso over ice.
haha: "punch you in the dick" is priceless. and you are right: arson threats are really really Not Okay.
You make starbuck's sound appealing. Congrats. That's a tough thing to do.
wow, nick, get over yourself. it's fucking coffee.
I Love You.
You have some problems there, man. You need to work on your perspective, espically towards your customers. People like what they like and it ain't your job to change that. Businesses with a "my way or the highway" attitude will lose customers who expect service. Granted a dying breed but there are a few of us left. Take care (of your customers).
Wow. Next time I'm in DC, I know exactly where I'm going to order myself an espresso over ice.
Only I'll need a protective cup first, as to lessen the pain of an inevitable cock-punch.
Did you disable comments on this post on purpose? Because that would just add to your overall douchiness....
I love how you state that you have policies in place, yet don't bother to say why those policies are so. No espresso in a to-go cup? Douche.
...and maybe David could have chosen different words or a slightly different tact in responding to Jeff Simmermon's request.
Especially if David had cared about good customer service.If he'd bothered to explain why you had the "no iced espresso" policy, or at least been less condescending toward Jeff Simmermon, there'd have been one less PR nightmare born in the ghetto. And nobody's momma would cry.
Guy, it's a coffee shop.
Really.
Get over yourselves.
(And public threat of arson? Please.)
You are ridiculous. You're not compromising the espresso, the customer is. Let them do what they want. Next you're going to tell me I can't have ketchup with my fries. C'mon. Get over yourself.
seems nick is the dick in this scenario.
You sound like an asshole, although I hope potential customers take your advice and avoid your high falutin' coffee shack like the plague.
Wow. Do you try to piss off your customers as much as possible? If so, you're doing a pretty good job.
this is like the guy who thought that article about abortion on The Onion was fact. not as funny though..
If it's okay with you, I'd like to use your phrase "I'll punch you in your dick" next time the situation calls for it. And I'll make sure to use the preposition "in" before "your dick", which is just about the funniest thing I've ready this month. Meanwhile, I hope you and Jeff can grab a beer sometime. Just make sure you agree on the microbrew before hitting the bar.
If it's okay with you, I'd like to use your phrase "I'll punch you in your dick" next time the situation calls for it. And I'll make sure to use the preposition "in" before "your dick", which is just about the funniest thing I've ready this month. Meanwhile, I hope you and Jeff can grab a beer sometime. Just make sure you agree on the microbrew before hitting the bar.
Are you kidding with this? I mean... seriously. You care more about your coffee's "integrity" as it travels down someone's throat than you do about the actual someone whose throat it travels down?
I don't live in your town, so no threats about not visiting your establishment, but just sayin'... you wouldn't last a day in my town where the coffee is for the people and not vise versa.
You're going to punch him in the dick? Damn! Not gonna count on you to help the world be a better place I guess. But sho' am glad there's some fine coffee to drink while it all goes to hell.
That's right. Punch him in the dick. It's your store. Your rules. Sadly, Jeff got the upper hand in all of this. But know that, somewhere, a moral victory lies for the taking!
YOU GUYS ARE FUCKING ASSHOLES
Wow, I will not be giving you anymore business.
The man just asked for a beverage, give him what he wants. Perhaps you might make a suggestion about a different type of beverage, but if someone wants something give it to them. We are not talking about mixing narcotics; it is just coffee.
I do think that Mr, Simmermon's post was a bit harsh, but I would expect a responsible business owner to make a friendly reply and be above making childish threats.
Good day to you, Sir!
Hi Nick.
I am visiting DC in the future and always like to go to independent coffee shops. From the tone of your post, though, it seems like you are trying to discourage people from visiting your business. Someone writes a blog post about how they bought two cups of coffee from you, and you return the favor by threatening to punch them in the dick. (And in the same post, basically say that you don't welcome new customers.) BTW, this whole incident probably could have been prevented if your barista had just told Jeff that the reason you don't serve espresso over ice is because you are worried about your customers making ghetto lattes. He probably would have just paid for the latte in that case, and everyone would have been happy.
But basically, instead of being helpful, you treated him like shit, and now he hates your company. Great job.
Anyway, thanks to your post, I will never be visiting your shop. My suggestion to you is to spend less time blogging about injuring your customers and more time paying your taxes.
you are a dick.
Hmm. I'd never heard of a ghetto latte. It seems like you'd need an awfully big cup to make one. Your google link led to sites talking about something called a "venti" which I assume is about the size of a small bucket.
The snarky part of me wants to ask if I can order an americano larger than 8 ounces in your shop, and if so why would you serve such an abomination? But you folks actually sound like a decent coffeeshop, so instead I'll just keep it in mind for next time I'm in the DC area...
You sound like quite a knob.
You do realize you serve coffee. It is not GOLD or some other hard to come by commodity.
The attitude of your coffee shop will be its demise. Good luck with that.
Visitor
Portland, OR
My, what an unbelievable cock you are. I'm grateful I'll never be in your neck of the woods so I won't have to go out of my way to not give you money.
Seeya in the soup lines, bozo.
You serve an americano, tool. You care nothing for the purity of coffee or it's taste, you are just a rule maker for the sake of being a dick. Punch yourself.
"To others reading this I will say that if you don't like the policies, I respectfully recommend that you find some other place"
done. I've never heard of your store before, but you can be certain I'll never step foot in it. And I'll be sure to let any one I know in or visiting the area know this story and how you deal with disgruntled customers.
I didn't bother to look and see how long you've been in business, but I would wager 'not much longer' if this is how you treat customers. If I want to piss in my coffee after I've paid for it I'll damn well do it.
You are certainly free to have whatever ridiculous policies you want. And the rest of us are free to make fun of you for it and take our money elsewhere.
Maybe you should have some tea and relax.
Good for you for having all the customers you need!
what a douche!
Dear Nick, Owner, murky coffee,
You are a tool. Get a life, you coffee-douche.
Respectfully,
Michael, former murky coffee customer
Seriously? That's the best you can do, Nick?
First, you've lost all claim to the high ground here. You can't possibly go with "respectfully" and whine about "common courtesy", and then go on with "fuck you" and threats of a cock punch. Either actually be respectful or be fully an asshole.
Second, you're displaying exactly the kind of high-handed, condescending snobbery that your barista was accused of. Before, people might have thought that somebody was having bad day, a weird anomaly. But no, you've made it clear that being an arrogant jerk to customers is the house style, and that it comes from the top.
Third, hiding behind mysterious "policies" is bullshit. You can either be a small, independent joint, and have personal reasons for what you do. Or you can be a large chain with policies that come from the 8th floor of some glassy building, no explanation attached. But trying to hide behind "policies" in a single store is a painfully obvious way of avoiding responsibility.
Fourth, you're still in the wrong. Yes, your customer was a jerk. But the barista was jerky first, and obviously wasn't "happy to share" the reasons behind being refused a reasonable request. If you can't even be man enough to admit that you and your minions were in the wrong, even by the low standards you set for yourself in this post, then it's no wonder you flamed out trying to run a whole second shop.
My advice: man up, say you're sorry, and show at least a vague awareness that you're in a customer service business. That doesn't mean that you have to ever serve an iced espresso if it bruises your delicate sensibilities, but it does mean demonstrating the respect that, so far, is just hot air on your part.
jesus christ guys, its just coffee.
It's not like you're undercooking a chicken here.
lighten up.
he wants iced coffee, give it to him. don't be so full of yourself. there's bigger problems in the world.
OMG get over yourself
You probably won't publish this because of my disagreeing.
Most people do not care about the quality and integrity of coffee. They either drink it for the kick, and/or the taste, which usually means it will become diluted with sugar and milk.
This is coming from a person who presses ALL her coffee and works for Starbucks, who probably houses the most horrifically unnecessarily snobby/fake employees I've EVER encountered [some are genuine]. Yes, their coffee DOES suck, with the exception of their espresso IMO.
Seriously, now. Unless it's making you convulse, I suggest you get over it.
His actions were uncalled for, of course, but so were yours. The customer isn't always right. Fuck that rule, but fuck snobs.
This post guarantees that I will *never* enter your premises. Thanks for being so clear!
That last paragraph is incredibly unprofessional. It's had the salutary effect of fixing your coffee shop's name in my head as a place I should never go.
You show him, Nick.
Wow Nick. I think you're wrong for how you responded to Jeff. Jeff too seems like he's had 20 shots. I dont think Jeff meant he was really gonna burn down your coffee shop. He wrote it 2 be lively /animated 4 his friends not realising it would go viral(be glad there isnt YT video of this incident).
I do think David shouldnt have said " “Hey What you’re about to do … that’s really, really Not Okay.” ".
...Perhaps if David explained that water kills the strength or boldness of the shot Jeff woulda been more receptive.
You are a cunt. Please get fucked. - hate coffee
While I understand the ghetto latte thing [that's truly cheap]. But the kid should NOT have said something about it. Period. While Mr. Simmerman was the completely excessive and overblown ugly american, your server f-d up. Customer is always right. And you kinda f-d up - "To others reading this I will say that if you don't like the policies, I respectfully recommend that you find some other place that will give you what you want, or select something that we can offer you."
Yah, that's what everyone is going to do. Writing this post was a bad business plan. Justified maybe, but a bad plan.
Jesus wept. What a pair of insufferable douchebags.
I say that if you ever show your face at my shop, I'll punch you in your dick.
Let's see.
Your waiter treats your customer like a criminal because he wants to pour espresso over ice - and now you're threatening him with felonious assault because he gave you money with a rude message on it?!
Can you stand back for a second and understand how truly aggressive and unreasonable both your actions are?
Let me explain that a customer is supposed to be a guest in your house. It's one thing if someone is doing something like falling asleep or harassing the customers - it's a completely different thing if he's simply consuming your product in a perfectly reasonable way that offends you but that most people would never even notice.
You should take a long, hard look at yourself. That's not right. "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
The correct answer you should have posted is, "We take our coffee very seriously, but of course he's right that he can drink it any way he likes because, after all, he did purchase it himself for his own use."
Nice.
too bad im not a local.
do you post coffee?
Hmmm, mental note...
Never visit Murky Coffee in VA. (This is why people go to Starbucks)
If you have store policies post or explain them, otherwise they don't exist and your employees just come off as being dicks. Which if they get that wrapped up in how someone else drinks their coffee, they must be anyway.
Worst case scenario Jeff orders a latte, hold everything except for the espresso. You get extra money and you don't have to expose your self and your entire company out to be the dicks that you seem to be so ready to punch.
-Zach from NYC
I found Mr. Simmermon's rant distasteful. I was pleased to see that he posted a link to your response on his blog though. I was happy that I'd get to see both sides of this interesting situation.
Up until the last paragraph, you came across as a respectful individual who truly cares about his business and his employees. But with your final statements, my perception of you changed completely. It honestly saddens me that you stooped to his level, and possibly a little beyond it.
I understand where you are coming from with your response. And because of that I want to point out that you may have done your business far more harm than Mr. Simmermon ever could have with your threats of physical violence.
I wish your you and your business well, but should I ever find myself in Arlington, I'll be finding another non-Starbucks coffee shop.
Hope this all blows over soon,
Susan
You are an asshole who runs a crappy coffee shop. When your shop closes no one will care. No one will remember you.
Douchebag. Douchebag. Everyone is a douchebag.
I think it's a stupid rule, I understand that it ruins everything about the foam drinks. Still a stupid rule.
Jeff seems to be the bigger 'bag. Though it seems the situation could be handled better all around.
I'll be back though... I don't like anything iced other than americano and straight coffee anyhow.
Yay for Douchebags!
you make coffee, you aren't gods.
Wake up to the real world.
Chortle chortle.
If the guy likes espresso over ice then sell it to him, he's your customer, it's not rocket science, customers come in, you sell them products and they pay, then, if you do it correctly the business thrives and everyone is happy.
What in the world are you talking about???
If I want to buy 3 espresso shots from you and pour them in my Thermos full of lime Jello, who the FU*K are you to tell me I can't do that. In case you are unfamiliar with the customer/vendor relationship, here's the drill: I pay you some money that you decide is appropriate, and you give me some stuff I decide is worth it. If I drink it, pour it in my gas tank, or bathe my cat in it, it's none of your damn business. Iced Espresso? THE HORROR. If I want to pour it on Chicken Wings it's none of your GD business. Get a freakin' clue you raging asshat.
you are a fucking idiot. I say this having been a barista and waiter making pro coffee for ten years. if you serve an americano, and an iced americano, you do the exact same thing. with more water. if you offer soy milk. or honey. or skim. you are allowing the people who patronize your business CHOICES.
you ridiculous approach to running a business (likely originating from having the money to open a business just handed to you with out realy earning it) will fail, because no on cares about your self-righteous coffee nazism. i think letting people put sugar in their coffee ruins it. but i still bring them sugar.
Nice going. I guess you can't be a coffee connoisseur unless you can somehow impose your arbitrary values on your customers. Could you possibly follow them home and prevent them from pouring espresso over ice in their own kitchens too? That would be great.
If you have a REAL problem with excessive dairy product waste and abuse, THAT is what you should deal with and address. I manage a bar. If people were stealing/wasting sugar packets or bevnaps or coasters, I'd either remove them or deal with it. I would not stop serving Iced Tea.
Your comment doesn't cut it. I'ts just coffee, not liquid gold or alchemy. If I buy it at a price you determine, I should be able to do with it as I please. Switch to portion packs, put dairy on the service counter or police what needs policing. Don't tell me I can't have iced espresso. ABSURD. I can get this at a dozen fine coffee shops in Austin, chain and local alike.
A follow-up of sorts...
We've got quite a few comments in the moderation-queue, and in a departure from normal procedures, I won't be approving and posting them all. Why? If you want to spew garbage on the internet, get your own blog.
I will, however, respond here to a few legitimate questions that some folks asked.
Q. What's wrong with "espresso over ice?"
Answer: Espresso is a fairly volatile thing, and when it hits ice, it seems to go through a chemical change that we can't fully explain (and I haven't seen a good explanation within our industry quite yet). It does appear to have something to do with ascorbic acid, but when we make our iced americanos (espresso + water + ice), we pour the shots into room-temperature water before adding the ice. Believe it or not, it does make a difference. Pouring espresso over ice creates unpleasantly acrid flavors.
Somewhat similarly, when we make our iced coffee, we go through the trouble of brewing it double-strength directly onto ice. If you brew coffee normally and then pour the hot coffee over ice, it results in unpleasant flavors. Making iced-coffee the way that we do seems to preserve a lot of the unique flavors from the coffees we're brewing (unlike the popular "Toddy" method of cold-brewing for iced coffee), and yields a great drink overall. Again, not entirely sure why the different technique yields such different results, but it does. If we put the coffee through two slits, it'd probably act all confusingly then too.
The second and more mundane reason has to do with the infamous "ghetto latte." More than half of the customers who we gave "iced espresso" to (back before our now infamous policy) would take that cup to the condiment bar and pour 8-14 ounces of milk out of the dairy pitcher, effectively taking advantage of a perceived loophole in the "system." Just as buying a cup of coffee doesn't entitle you to take a pound's worth of sugar packets home with you to put into your jar at home, this "ghetto latte" practice was pretty disheartening and distracting to the baristas. Call it our "infield fly rule," but "no espresso over ice" became our policy in 2006.
Q. Why do you allow "iced americanos," but not iced espresso?
Answer: See answer above.
Q. But why would David, the barista in question, "Hey, what you’re about to do-that’s really, really not okay?"
Because we have our policy, and David was trying to support it, even though the other barista who rang this customer up gave in and gave him "a double espresso and a cup of ice," which, to be frank, the baristas aren't supposed to do.
Q. Why did you threaten the guy with violence? That's not cool!
Maybe you're right. But if someone posts on the internet "the only way I’m ever coming back to Murky Coffee in Arlington is if I’m carrying matches and a can of kerosene" as this dude did, I will, without remorse, post publicly that I will defend our property, even with violence. Yeah, what I wrote was ridiculous. A ridiculous response to a ridiculous statement... at least I hope so. If not, I hope his dick is at least big enough to punch.
Q. The customer is always right
Yeah, that's true. Actually, nevermind. It's bullshit.
Every customer is a welcome guest. But even welcome guests can overstep their bounds, and demanding that we give you something that we say that we can't or won't is overstepping your bounds for sure. I can pretty much guarantee that we spend more time and energy on making our espresso as great as can be, than anyone else in the DC area. That said, not everyone's gonna love it. Such is life. We have our standards. You're more than welcome to partake in it, and you're completely free not to. We'll keep doing our best (and that includes giving good customer service).
This all leads to a whole thing about consumerism that I've been ranting about for years, but this is neither the time nor place for that.
I will add that it is our internal policy that I support my employees, even when they make mistakes. In this case, David wasn't perfect, but he tried to do the right thing. For the Simmermon-dude to write that crap on that dollar bill waived his rights to any civility. Dish it out, then take it. Mr. Simmermon is a big boy. He doesn't need the blogosphere coming to his defense.
Q. Get over it. It's just coffee.
You're absolutely right. Everyone go home and call your mother and tell her you love her. Afterwards, understand that it is "just coffee" after all. However, coffee is our job. That's all. No more, no less.
Thanks for all the comments and emails (for the record, about 40% supportive, 20% critical, and about 40% ignorant and ridiculous... but that's the nature of the sandbox that we blog in, no?).
-Nick Cho, owner
There's no need to be such an asshole. Really. Now the entire Internet (or at least several millions of them) get to see the bad attitude of both your barrista and yourself. I would suspect that this will severely negatively affect your business.
Be a nice person. Don't be a dick. Apologize. Give people what they ask for.
Work on it. Good luck, but I'd suspect that with this much bad P.R. that you'll go out of business.
"To others reading this I will say that if you don't like the policies, I respectfully recommend that you find some other place that will give you what you want, or select something that we can offer you."
The only way a person could do this is come into your store and try to pay you for your goods and services only to be met with refusal and frustration or to hear about it from a disgruntled customer.
Also, you can offer what the gentleman asked for--you just will not. There's a subtle but important difference there.
" At murky, we try to treat people with common courtesy..."
There's nothing courteous about refusing to let a customer enjoy what they're paying you for--within certain limits. The gentlemen wasn't Barbara Streisand asking for a new toilet seat in its factory wrapper every time he comes in. He just wanted ice.
"We're not supposed to go through life looking for reasons to get pissed off."
It's perfectly reasonable to refuse to allow your employee to create a sub-standard product himself. It's not reasonable for him to extend that and try to stand between your customer and their enjoyment of your product. At that point, he stopped acting as your employee and began a personal dispute with a customer. The employee doesn't have to like the customer or appreciate his tastes--he just has to serve him politely.
With respect, I suggest instructing your employees not to behave similarly in the future if you haven't already, lest other customers find other places to get what they want. If you serve a great product, it could only hurt you and potential customers to lose business for refusing to allow customers to modify their own property peacefully. Again, they should refuse to make the sub-standard product themselves, but not pursue the issue further.
Whatever - and while we're at it, can I suggest that you de-self-aggrandise your web site by changing "hours & locations" to "hours & locatioN" - you are, after all, just one coffee shop.
Kuzzer
Just so you know when writing your policies, "tact" is not short for "tactic". The word is "tack", a sailing term, meaning "an angle of attack toward the wind." It it used to describe an approach taken to a topic or task.
You're a dumbass, Nick.
Nick,
I've got to say, that of all the pretentious clowns who ever opened a business, you really take the cake. The customer wanted to pour his espresso (and as soon as he pays you for it, it is HIS, not YOURS) over ice. maybe that offends your tortured artistic soul, but too bad: try to work it out in therapy.
-jcr
Customer walks into a place, makes a perfectly reasonable (from his point of view), specific and simple request and gets denied it without explanation.
That's not "high standards", or any of that bullshit you try to pass it off as. It's bad customer service, full stop.
If you really have ridiculously high standards when it comes to coffee quality, why don't you try to educate your customers on the finer points of your art? Just saying "it's our policy to annoy you to no end for no good reason" is not a solution.
There's a million disgusting and horrible things I want say about you but I am sure you are proud of your severe character flaws.
I am a random non-blogger who stumbled upon the blog and then this website from a link on a friend's profile on facebook. I was a hospitality consultant in a previous life and a currently an internet business owner. I know that you, Nick, have every right to be upset. However, at the end of the day, this is your business that is now being more and more sullied across the internet because you failed on the cardinal rules- the customer is always right, and even if you don't agree, keep your opinions to yourself and maintain your professionalism. The course of appeasement is always best practice (and cheaper!) than indulging your anger and dividing the public into haters and backers, who before this incident, were never haters at all. I hope that if you want to be a successful business owner, you seek help in conflict resolution and negotiation. I wish you all the best of luck because I hate to see another entrepreneur fail because of ignorance or pride.
your employees are lucky to have a boss who backs them up so. good on you.
I wish I didn't live across the country from your location so that the fact that I would never, ever give you stuck up jackasses any business would mean something.
Pull your heads out of your collective asses.
Sorry, Nick, your guys are douches.
I think that not approving comments and then asserting a particular distribution (40%/20%/40%) is self-serving to the point of ridiculousness.
Obviously you are afraid to be criticized. That's fine. Then don't approve the posts you don't like. But at least don't try to cover it over.
After almost 8 years of GW Bush and his image control team, we are used to it all and see through such tricks. But your particular approach is just a little bit silly.
You guys are dicks.
You know, this all pretty amusing. I was ready to slag the coffee shop for being pompous coffee snobs.
However, I have my own graphic design business (http://www.donovangilhooley.com) which I link to here. Not get more links to my business, but to give an example of why I support the coffee bar. if you'll read the copy at my web site, you'll see that I too, do things my own way. As one of my best friends observed, "It's nice how you tell people you'll be a pain in the ass up front." Which is partially true.
I, too, am going to do my business my way. I will attract the sort of clients I want and like, and deter those who would drain my life force.
This is definitely a tempest in a coffee-cup. As Nick says, "just coffee."
I'm sitting on the fence for this one. I agree with both parties, however as i am commenting on the "owner" blog, I'll aim my comment that way.
Perhaps you could remove the policy and work on suggestions. Train your staff to suggest, advise and entertain, not tell, instruct and ban. It seems you have an agressive mantra in your shop, too much coffee perhaps?
BTW i agree that the customer isn't always right, but respect is a two way street.
There was another restaurant in DC that had about the same type of uptight policies against customers as it seems Murky Coffee has.
The place is (was) called Colorado Kitchen and, for example, they wouldn't allow children to touch their prized salt shaker collection or allow people to move the tables together (once literally got yelled at for attempting this).
Anyway, Colorado Kitchen is now going to close due to its annoying "policies" that are anti-customer.
Ah, capitalism is grand, ain't it? Well, it's only going to get worse for Murky Coffee considering that this is all over the blogs and has gotten people pissed off at you.
ps: Jeff was obviously joking about the kerosene thing.
punching people in their dick should help your bottom line.
Hi Nick,
I'm impressed that your passion for the quality of your coffee has brought you to the point of losing customers. While I can't say I'd ever have gone to your place in the first place (I live in Columbia Heights in the District), I can tell you now that if I ever find myself near you and in need of coffee I will hope to be wearing a cup as I turn away from Murky Coffee to find a Starbucks.
What you fail to recognize is a basic tenet of retail: more often than not the customer IS wrong, but we give in anyway. I've worked in catering for high-end clients for years and there are times that no matter how I've tried to convince a client otherwise, I've had to give in and put fish and meat on the same plate - a culinary horror in my book. Why? Because we, as stewards of our craft, sometimes have to look past our passion, our elitism, and our expertise - to serve it up - and acknowledge that our experience and training is limited to our own selves. Others experience flavors and sensations differently, and should be accorded fairly when their palates are being considered. Furthermore, we can delight in sharing with our customers our experiences in other ways, and hope to effect their changes in the future.
What's wrong with suggesting that this customer try it both ways? If the customer is in your store and spending money, why not offer to let him make it his way AND to make it your way and have him taste the difference? I guarantee that even if he doesn't taste the difference he will at least appreciate your kindness and passion and be one of your biggest fans - heck, he'll probably order it your way from then on. And what have you done? you've gained a loyal customer AND given him some of your special coffee training. A win-win situation. If you tell me that you don't have time to do this for him, well, then, sir, you have no business being so elite.
Your "ghetto latte" argument (the use of "ghetto" screams of classism and racism, btw) is hard to follow. If the milk is going too fast in these situations, you can either provide smaller cups of ice or keep milk products behind the counter (not at all ideal). However, I fail to see how saving a few ounces of milk now and then makes up for the loss of a few would-be regular customers. Surely you use milk to make your non-"ghetto lattes" and the price of a cappuccino is comparable to that of an espresso. What are you really losing then?
What you've done for me, Nick, is to warn me against your arrogance. The shame of it is, that in crafting an elitist policy (built out of your passion for a superior product) you've isolated yourself and brought bad press to your establishment. Until yesterday, I had never heard of Murky Coffee - now, I not likely to ever set foot in your store. The mere mention of your store's name will forever remind me of your arrogance. Let's hope, for your sake, that your customer base is more forgiving and forgetting than I.
I humbly suggest that you strongly re-evaluate your goals as a business owner. Are you hoping to bring people a superior product? Or are you just hoping to glorify yourself?
Kind regards,
Nathan in DC
A Passionate Coffee Drinker
Obviously, you're moderating comments, but I figured I'd just pass on that even Imbibe Magazine doesn't have an issue with iced espresso, only with the skill and technique exhibited by baristas who don't know what they're doing. From their 2008 Ultimate Summer Drinks Guide:
“Some cafes don’t serve iced coffee at all — only iced Americanos. When ice rubs up next to ice cubes, things can sour, literally. But with good technique, skilled baristas can make great tasting iced espresso.”
(And of note, I found the 2008 Ultimate Summer Drink Guide courtesy of *YOUR COFFEE ROASTERS*, Counter Culture, who have mirrored it here:
http://www.counterculturecoffee.com/docs/Imbibe_icedcoffee_2008.pdf
Apparently, they don't care all that much that people are putting their precious beans over ice...)
Yo,
I appreciate the "customer is not always right" stance. I work at an independent record store and am a staunch believer in the fallibility of customers... as it is in my face every single day.
Anyway, I am wondering why you won't answer questions about your hot chocolate. That seems like kind of a jerky move. I can understand not wanting to give away the recipe , etc. but what about allergies and the like? I'm vegan - can't I ask if the hot chocolate can be made dairy free?
Just curious.
Thanks!